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compliance case or no ?

 
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selena151
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:45 am    Post subject: compliance case or no ? Reply with quote

Hi all
best wishes to all

lastly one case come up to my attention and i want to share it with you
many school or even college worldwide provide education versus fees &
tuition which deserve some attention

as instance:
Local / Residents students ……..x$
international/ foreign ……………2x$
While some school request a common fee to all and may provide some
subsidy to local or foreign ; depending of their goals and this may
remain understandable; some require fees as described above

Isn’t that proposal based on nationality matter based on
discrimination as prohibited by legal requirement which forbid to make
a difference based on color , ethnic. nationality…?
Worst; when the school is located overseas and foreign which may
attend their had no other choices in their area of living to ensure to
their child the same education level as home land or required if you
want to later continue in international college or similar , isn’t
that kind of situation forbidden by regulations in competition which
defend to make difference in price based on discrimination ?
last and not the least; while such entities is operating overseas ,
who is monitor them and in case of gov agreement with local , is that
unleash such school from home regulation and how such bodies is
monitored between location

isn’t that curious case ? icon_eek.gif icon_cry.gif
sel
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Denis
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:14 am    Post subject: Re: compliance case or no ? Reply with quote

Interesting question ....... but let's be clear that this is nothing to do with SOx or equivalent overseas legislation.

selena151 wrote:

Isn’t that proposal based on nationality matter based on
discrimination as prohibited by legal requirement which forbid to make
a difference based on color , ethnic. nationality…?


It depends icon_wink.gif

Certainly it depends on the nature of the discrimination and which jurisdiction(s) you are referring to.

For example, within the UK it was the case for many years that foreign students were routinely charged more for tuition fees than UK students. However, it was ruled that this was against European Union law (due to freedom of movement laws within EU) with the result that there is no differentiation against EU nationals in European colleges. However, non-EU nationals still pay the inflated fees.

However, whether you regard this as fair or not, it is certainly not unlawful for UK (or other EU) Universities and Colleges to charge non-EU overseas students higher tuition fees.

The argument for the differentitation is that this is something along the lines of universities are partially funded (subsidised) by the taxpayer, overseas students (or parents thereof) will probably not have paid any UK taxes and therefore not contributed to that subsidy.

In the end of the day, colleges charge more to overseas students because they can. If the demand and willingness to pay weren't there then they wouldn't.

selena151 wrote:
Worst; when the school is located overseas and foreign which may
attend their had no other choices in their area of living to ensure to
their child the same education level as home land or required if you
want to later continue in international college or similar , isn’t
that kind of situation forbidden by regulations in competition which
defend to make difference in price based on discrimination ?
last and not the least; while such entities is operating overseas ,
who is monitor them and in case of gov agreement with local , is that
unleash such school from home regulation and how such bodies is
monitored between location


Sorry, I don't understand the second part of your post.
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selena151
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Posts: 61

PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:34 am    Post subject: Compliances cases or no? Reply with quote

Hi all
thanks Denis for feedback



Denis wrote:
...The argument for the differentitation is that this is something along the lines of universities are partially funded (subsidised) by the taxpayer, overseas students (or parents thereof) will probably not have paid any UK taxes and therefore not contributed to that subsidy.

In the end of the day, colleges charge more to overseas students because they can. If the demand and willingness to pay weren't there then they wouldn't....


even i'm not legal and my knowledge on regulations may be modest, there may be lot to say about that.
At the best of myknowledge & speaking about foreign living in another country, most of the times, they pay their taxes or in case they don't, it is under the regulations which prevent people to pay double in their home cournty ad host one, so i wonder why school request foreigns to pay taxes if regulations of host courntry may prevent it due to considerations i just wrote!!!

In the other hand; to ask people to pay because the can!! is pretty strange for me, in this case, why it isn't applicable to everthing? as instance, if i want buy a good in shop i will do it not based on the price published but based on my capacity!!!

for the discrimination, i'm arguiying ,i assume you may find it in all regulations worldwide ! you may find it in usa, in uk , ch ...normally when you provide one services or goods, the price may not be based on your gender, color, nationality....etc. normaly the price for the same good is the same, but if some group get discount, it is as subvention, or discount for specific period, or age while the official price remain the same for all.


Denis wrote:
...
selena151 wrote:
Worst; when the school is located overseas and foreign which may attend their had no other choices in their area of living to ensure to
their child the same education level as home land or required if you
want to later continue in international college or similar , isn’t
that kind of situation forbidden by regulations in competition which
defend to make difference in price based on discrimination ? ......
...Sorry, I don't understand the second part of your post.
..

i refer to regulation which prohibit a compagnies which benefit from their position as unique choice in one location to oblige their clients to pay against their service a price different of another clients based on discrimination criteria as described above , you may find such regulation in competition laws



Denis wrote:
...
selena151 wrote:
]
last and not the least; while such entities is operating in foreign countries ,
who is monitor them and in case of gov agreement with local , is that
unleash such school from home regulation and how such bodies is
monitored between location
...Sorry, I don't understand the second part of your post.


when a as instance a company from courntry A, has subsidy or others forms of units within courntry B; and this subsidy remain under local regulations of B country due to it legal form or whatever , is that mean the country A won't monitor it , in case of deviation in foreign country here B?
hope i'm clear now icon_wink.gif

thanks again Denis
and nice day to all
selena
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Denis
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the response Selena.

Again talking about the UK - being the jurisdiction I understand and being a popular location for overseas students that does charge "foreigners" more for tuition fees.

I am not saying that the dual pricing is right, but it has been tested and has been found to not be illegal. People are not discriminated on account of being foreign. Foreign nationals are not prevented from applying to the College and will gain a place if they meet the entry requirements. In addition, foreign nationals who have been resident in the UK for the previous 3 years would not pay the higher fee as they are ordinarily resident in the UK.

So the conclusion would be that the "discrimination" is not based on nationality it is based on residency.

The rationale for this is that education is not a free market good but contains a social element. The social element has been funded by taxpayers over the years and the non-resident has not contributed to this. To be clear, Universities and Colleges in most of Europe are not private corporations they are normally fully or partly state owned and/or funded.

The situation is similar to welfare benefits. You can't normally just turn up in a country and claim welfare. However, if you have been living and working there for a period of time then you normally can.
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selena151
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:36 am    Post subject: Compliance case or no? Reply with quote

Hi Denis
thanks for feedback icon_smile.gif

There are here 3 categories of students: Nationals, Residents & temporary : depending of local regulations where they act; these words had different meaning and thus subject to different regulations; some regulations won’t consider you as residents even you had born there believe me and provide such name to people which had one parent from these location. so you may living there for long period; owning house, paying taxes and not be considered as permanent resident! and your residence is based on local permit to stay and decision to extend it or no.
So unless the school establish a common understanding to such definition to respond to its “ welfare purpose” as you suggested, in some location; foreign will remain temporary. I point out this item just to highlight this fact

with that said; IMHO; I don’t see such service as Welfare benefit. Welfare benefit as I understand it at least is kind of help ; supports that states provide to one category of its citizens which is feeble; financially speaking , such as social housing; food stamps ; access to healthcare service…..etc. while such education institutions may be as you said fully or partially state owned, but usually had many advantage from tax policies (exemption…etc)

They aren't dedicated to feeble populations: in many locations worldwide , such school is used by wealthy citizens and tuitions requested couldn’t be paid by local poor or normal families.

Kind of schools has as aim usually while operating overseas, has as goal to spread their views of education, and such services is usually available or possible to attend by people with certain income & social level .

I would see as welfare benefit institution ; bodies which go overseas in poor location to help population in alphabetization and increase instruction and this kind is out of this topic.

Relating to point that such institution had been funded by taxpayers and non residents don’t contributed to that: well; I will repeat my argue relating to tax purpose foreign based on not double taxation policies between two location: home land and host one. and also , if you argue with that; that mean that foreign have to do the same for all services in this location and not just in this case ; additional; foreign without children don’t contribute on that, and non-residents don’t do so as well as many residents national!!

I’m agree that kind of purpose has social elements, but I will not consider it as welfare benefit,instead as others common services with the same criteria as private healthcare service ( hospitals) , private House of retirement …etc. you cannot say they don’t provide a social benefits if we look their proposals o services

To give an overview of common practices in random kind of bodies overseas: some double tuitions for foreign, but others do different, & charge the local or provide as instance their expatriates a subvention and others ( resident and others foreign) are charged so here we are away from the taxpayer considerations and contribution to such institution

this is really tricky question and launch many questions icon_eek.gif
thank you in advance for feedback

sel
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